Those critics of EWS must have been delerious. The official cause of death was from a heart attack. It's pronounced Paw-rick, not Pad-raig. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage between> Mandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and the> Amanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drug> overdoses. Eyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubrick's final movie starring Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman, but what does the mask on the pillow near the end mean? <<<<<<<<<<<<<>. Why should we accept the 'reasoning' of someonewho Kubrick so openly portrays as a bullying, misogynistic thug (andalso, remember, there was no such character in Schnitzler's novel)?Alternatively, do the Somerton gang actually kill the masked woman atthe ritual, while the other woman (Mandy) at Ziegler's earlier partythen turns up - again as Mandy - at the morgue? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. >He also must have recognized> the voice, considering that her voice is somewhat deep and throaty with a> tinge of distinctive accent. :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the filmitself, there is absolutely no indication - other than Ziegler'sdubious contention - that Mandy is also the masked woman at Somerton.There could even have been two deaths. But examine the frame showing the overhead shot in the morgue, with all the shots of Mandy in the bathroom. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. Many of the nude women begin pairing up with the fully-clothed men, and the orgy begins in nearly full view. After Dr. Bill Harford's wife, Alice, admits to having sexual fantasies about a man she met, Bill becomes obsessed with having a sexual encounter. and she >> replies, "Better," and then when Bill says, "you are a very lucky girl," >> Mandy says, "I know." Is that how youwould describe it? He obtains the secret password to a clandestine masked ball, where he has a seductive encounter with a beautiful stranger. There are many aspects of it that ARE still a > mystery such as I was suggesting with the costume. >> First of all, Mandy must have felt some connection with Bill since he >> was showing her concern and kindness in the Bathroom.>, > Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professional> doctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety than> about Mandy's actual wellbeing. What a mish mash of mental masturbation that is.. Psycho-semi-freudian-lacanisn-junkie-marxist babbling. And you bring up anachoronistic Deleuze and Guattari? because Bill didn't get to see him up close like the film > audience.>, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Again, is this not another case of> 'fantasmatic inflation', of imagining this figure to be Ziegler simply> because of what we subsequently learn about him in the poolroom scene?> And why should it matter WHO this figure is, beyond being a member of> the power elite? Even Ziegler only uses that wordin reference to his own earlier party, while referring to the Somertonrituals always more elusively: "I was there, at the House", "what ifwhat happened was a fake, a charade", etc, but no mention of any'party' at Somerton. Again. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing >> this," Mandy says, "Ya." Bill in that scene was simply behaving as a (not very) professionaldoctor; and he seemed just as concerned about Ziegler's anxiety thanabout Mandy's actual wellbeing. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all wearingmasks? Well thats all true, but of course that was SK making a masterpiece and one of the most amazing films ever made IMO. I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. What a joke to call them "philosophers." <<<<<<<<. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. Those critics of EWS must have > been delerious. He discovers an underground sexual group and attends one of their meetings -- and quickly discovers that he is in over his head. >Even in the morgue he still might not have> been positive, but he replays her voice in his head while looking over the> body. >>>>>>>>>>>> And if this firgure was Ziegler, why would he subsequentlysend a naked masked woman over to Bill for his benefit? He then breaks down crying and confesses to Alice his misadventures of the past few days. Tragically it was the director's final film with Kubrick dying less than a week after screening an incomplete cut for the studio and its stars. It is only when Ziegler responds> positively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman in> the morgue?" Deleuze probably realized how stupid he was before he jumped out that window. >Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from> the bathroom, till he happened to see the news story and saw the name> "Amanda," then it started to come together. Padraig has been writing about film online since 2012, when a friend asked if he'd like to contribute the occasional review or feature to their site. He's super modern too, so his favorite movies include Jaws, Die Hard, The Thing, Ghostbusters and Batman. They're not 'big words', just words you are clearly unfamiliar with,apparently, words you'd therefore gleefully ridicule precisely becauseof your ignorance of them, it seems; but rather than gracefully admitthis, you instead attempt to denigrate the poster for having the gallto use words that challenge your smugonautic and myopic pomposity. >>He also must have recognized the voice, considering that her voice is >>somewhat deep and throaty with a tinge of distinctive accent. orpsychotherapists. It seems evident that Kubrick carefully selected the Rothschild-owned location and hand-picked the masks worn by participants of the ritual, echoing real-life families and events. I found them both disappointing. The Daily Planet may go under too. >> When we see the news article about dead Mandy, it says "Beauty Queen"> but how did Bill know that was the same woman who ODd or helped him at> the orgy, since he never knew the real name of either? How doesshe know this? Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > It's "clear," after studying the film after many viewing.>, > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Ziegle'sr story here once again, and then retrospectively> interpellating and internalising it, re-interpreting all the earlier> events of the film in strict accordance with his frankly deeply> suspect account? that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, hasit confirmed by someone else (Ziegler). At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. I agree though, he hadnt made a defintiive connection yet. ME> Again. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. You saw > her volunteer to sacrifice herself so the orgy managers would let Doctor > Cruise go free.>> If the woman in the mask had been the same woman as Mandy, you would have > expected some recognition of that from Doctor Cruise. and then Bill says, "..you can't keep doing this," Mandy says, "Ya." And isn't this the mistake that many of the film's> critics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,> desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidy> denouement? In the bathroom scene, there is no way to tell if Mandy has that freckle, because of her slouched position, which also makes it hard to tell her height in relation to Bill. Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Statanic mass? Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. The second half of Eyes Wide Shut sees Bill being given ominous warnings from this secret society, and he can't seem to find his mask from the party. And isn't this the mistake that many of the film'scritics made, reading Ziegler's story as 'ruining' the mystery,desublimating the film's narrative by means of an all-neat-and-tidydenouement? Think of that journey as Dr. Bill's "living nightmare" or "daydream," which began after he left his wife. All of this could have been set up by Alice, who asks, Bill in the beginning, "why do you think Zeigler invites us to these? i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. One intriguing reading of the Eyes Wide Shut mask being on the pillow is that it's only in Bill's head as if he's exhausted by trying to hide his attempts at infidelity or true feelings from Alice, leading to an emotional breakdown. 0. for the morgue scene but it is still meant to be the same Mandy. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. For instance,it's fairly obvious from the start who the Mysterious Woman is. In Dr. Bill's "dream," the masked woman he meets (played by Abigail Good) and who he later sees dead in the morgue, is a distortion of the woman he met at the party when he was still "awake" partying with his wife. And even if it was clear, even if he hadreferred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)party, it would still be uncertain, because. People and Masks: The Meaning of Eyes Wide Shut. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figureon the basis of his eyes? > Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the > Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow > our mind. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. Alot was going on, he had to figure it out. Somerton could hardly be described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.' It is also perhaps worth pointing out that the Somerton events, thoughso described in countless reviews and commentaries on the film - arenot accurately called an orgy, as that would imply that female, inaddition to male, sexual desire would find free expression at such anevent. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. Somerton could hardly be >>>>>> described (andcertainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-zen/. Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. If we try to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries. If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. > > On Jan 11, 6:50 am, dumb_n00b wrote: > > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. <<<<<<<<<<<. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. The movie went through post-production following Stanley Kubrick's death, though some have argued about how much it represents his intended vision. ", "Victor what can I say. Why would he demand that she take off> her mask if this were so? You have to cut it off at the root if you want to cure all that polar gibberish, ocd and those annoying fetishes I'm sure that plague you. In fact, the only actual dream in the film is unseen, is onlylater described - namely, Alice's dream/nightmare about having sexwith numerous men (strikingly similar to the fate of the women atSomerton) in which Bill is openly humiliated, and told to Bill justafer he returns from Somerton. that Bill first makes this connection, or at least, has> it confirmed by someone else (Ziegler)", > Ditto. Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. I never siad Bill recognized him.we get to recognize him when we study it. WebEyes Wide Shut is Stanley Kubricks love letter to his wife. 2. Perhaps it> would have worked better if there had been a photo in the news> article. He wasn't positive. Is that how > you> would describe it? This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. Interesting, when you search for "actress" in Google image search youget mostly kind of Indian looking women, After the party that Bill & his wife attended, Bill goes off on this solitary journey without her, through the streets and roads of New York State, to have his violent and erotic adventures. Rather, heis beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the maskedwoman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her upclose in the morgue. And the redeemer's pubic hair is also trimmed the same. But that's not the half of it. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let thewomen there know that there was an interloper? The main point, was that that kind of mental approach to things, is actually the biggest impediment to focusing the mind. >>What else could he call it? > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." Was she the women at the party?" It is only when Ziegler respondspositively to Bill's question, "The woman at the party is the woman inthe morgue?" This is still a mystery. He's eventually discovered and forced to remove his mask but is saved from a bleak fate by another masked woman who tried to warn him to leave earlier. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I know." >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy all> along. The lost of public phones booths will kill off Superman, Dr. Who, and Colin Farrell roles. So is Ziegler lying? However, as we might imagine, there were many who believed his death was far from natural. AmericanCinematographer did some thing on the lighting or something in thismovie when it came out, but David Mullen who used to post here (whenthis place was even worse) could answer like anything. This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! It is odd that Bill would remember his patient he hadn't seen in at least a year, owned "Rainbow Fashions?" <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. 1. As though testing how well Bill's implanted suggestions had taken..????? Simply because we don't really know the extent of the "charade," from the Illuminatii/Secret government etc, OR what SK really had in mind---to blow our mind. Ironically, that is just what power (and Ziegler)would want you to believe - that the world of power and power elitesdoesn't exist, is just all a charade anyway, that those who dorecognise the realities of social power and of desire are justparanoid conspiracy nutters (when in fact it is those whoattribute all that occurs in the film to 'a dream' who are beingproperly paranoid). Which all suggests that Ziegler didn't actually know> about Bill's presence at Somerton until he removed his mask > <<<<<<<<<<<<. He treated her as a not-very-important> patient; no Mandys attend Bill's upmarket surgery.>, Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast.>, > How? Statanic mass? > If we speculate too far then we could say it was ALL a Charade. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? In keeping with the filmmaker's quest for perfection, the shoot for Eyes Wide Shut famously rolled on, with the movie holding the record for the longest consecutiveshoot, as filming began in late 1996 and wrapped in mid-1998. WebOne of the masked women warns him he is in terrible danger. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. Clearly, of course,the Somerton ritual is a mirror of Ziegler's party (with each event inmany ways serving as the 'truth' of the other): whether its Mandy atthe party or at the ritual or at both, the outcome is still the same:a corpse in a morgue. It was a > party nevertheless. WebSynopsis. Carolin Ruwe, in her book Symbols in Stanley Kubrick's Movie 'Eyes Wide Shut', argues that the mask is the prime symbol of the film. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. >>>>>>>>>>>>And didn't Ziegler subsequently admit that the Somerton people> only learned of Bill's identity as a result of becoming suspicious of> his manner of arrival and the costume-rental receipt in his coat> pocket?<<<<<<<<<<<<<, > So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do, > you want me to say?..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Please either stop > or> shape up. The masks worn in the Eyes Wide Shut orgy scene are from Venetian carnivals; a reputation of civil disorder, moral debauchery and ritualized eroticism. If he wereZiegler, wouldn't he instead be going out of his way to privatelycommunicate with Bill, to get Bill out of Somerton as quickly aspossible in order to avoid any possible trouble (and as Zieglersubsequently admits, Bill's gate-crashing 'made me look like acomplete fool')? >What else could> he call it? In contrast to the Ziegler-Bill poolroom scene clearing up allambiguities (Ziegler's seeming 'commonsensical' and desublimating'explanation' of the Somerton ritual), as many have complained in thepast, this scene instead multiplies and amplifies the uncertainties.Ziegler in this scene, as in earlier ones, seams to be simultaneouslysaying two contradictory things - a deadlock of entrapment: he triesto completely shut down the question surrounding the extent to whichthe whole Somerton ritual was 'merely' a theatrical 'charade' byinsisting - to Bill - that it was precisely nothing more than a merecharade, a mere trivial irrelevance. It's just idiotic. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. She helps Bill at the <<<<<<<<<<<<<. There's like a billion posts here at alt.movies.kubrick and you cansearch the archives for this information. And how does Bill know that a cape and a mask was appropriate attire? ANSWERS: 4. I am ready He did not know who she was: she was wearinga mask. Statanic mass? and> pleading with her to take off her mask? Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. SoZiegler's principal role in the film and in this scene is as anunscrupulous defender of wealth and power and as a power-brokerintermediary (laying down the Law while also routinely transgressingit), threateningly indicating to Bill just what the rich and powerfulcan do and what they can get away with. - Zieglerwasn't concerned about her health, just eager to get rid of her so asto avoid any potential social embarrassment, "Bill, this is justbetween us"). But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. Sakyamuni had taught that simpleminded people of even blind faith are way ahead of these blabbering, eliteist, arrogant intellectuals. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. While Polanski is the master ofparanoia, The Ninth Gate had too many things wrong with it. <<<<<<<<< case like that a pwerson would go through the various possibilities in his > mind, but he was kinda busy. Indeed, the film iscentrally concerned with the failure of a 'male-centric' andpatriarchal ideology to deal with female desire; and the narrativethrust of the film revolves around Bill's increasingly hopelessefforts to flee from (but also to copy and avenge) Alice's desire, adesire from which he is completely excluded, just as he is laterexcluded from the desire-space of the power-elite at Somerton. The Redeemer's voice does sound alot like Mandy's voice, both with a hint of a New York accent. Amazing. --Napoleon. WebEyes Wide Shut (1999) Abigail Good: Mysterious Woman, Masked Party Principal Showing all 3 items Jump to: Quotes (3) Quotes Mysterious Woman : Stop! They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. The 'mystery' is how SHE knows that he is an interloper. Imay bewrong, but I think Kubrick intended it that way. But he can't know for sure (because she was> masked at Somerton).>, >> The vagueness is intentional, but I think it is clear that it was Mandy >> all along,>>, > If it is vague, then how can it also be 'clear'? The twenty-something woman confirmed she and her partner Leonard are polyamorous. Milich even tried to talk Bill into renting a more colorful costume. 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