This has happened three times. So you had the power cut out, and then all the warning lights came on, you turned it off, turned it back on, and then the power cut out again? Unsubscribe any time. 2011. He has studied aeronautics and civil aviation in his college and still gets smitten by Galant SS and Lancer GSR. Should you choose to drive your vehicle with a faulty battery, you risk losing power to your battery at high speeds. The dealer has a 30-day warranty so I drove it back and they're going to . Warning lights may appear tiny, but understanding what they indicate is critical. While the vehicle was stop, the auto shut off went off, and upon moving the foot from brake and depress accelerator, the Honda Pilot 2017 turned off and restarted requiring driver to depress Engine Start again. Always examine your cars Maint light to see if something is causing it to come on. While enhancements such as VCM (Variable Cylinder Control) and direct fuel injection added to the efficiency of the Honda Pilot's engine, they also added extra layers of complication and introduced additional failure points to the Pilot's emission control system. We use cookies to analyze & improve your experience, & to personalize content and ads. for a Honda, VERY POOR SHOWING. Drivers report that their emission systems warning light will come on while driving. The battery icon light signals an issue with the charging system. What Causes Problems With The Emissions System On A Honda Pilot? Mid January of 2020 at 23,000 miles the emissions system light turned out again. Other messages may be flashed on these lights, or symbols, to assist the driver in determining the source of the problem. This 2019 Honda Pilot elite has an engine auto shut off that engages when stopped at traffic lights, stopped traffic, etc. Pay attention to your dashboard, and dont dismiss the warnings. Brake system (Canada) | This light may indicate that the brake system has a problem or the brake fluid is low. These lights are used for 99.9% of driving. It turned out my fuel rail was the culprit causing the lights to come up. A flashing light indicates that the problem is hazardous and if not taken care of hastily may result in excellent break to the vehicle. High Beam Headlights: The Honda Pilot models use a 9005 bulb for high beam headlights. This is a Honda issue and they should repair regardless of the indicator being illuminated or not. Spray the WD-40 liberally, and open and close each door firmly a dozen times, to work the lubricant into the mechanisms. Killed the factory battery, changed it and took it into the dealer, they were not able to figure it out, they reset the electronic system, but the issue still persists. Change the battery and alternator (with regulator) when you notice such values. Don't waste your time wasting ours! This symbol represents excessive heat from your engines radiator. Content on piloteers.org is generated by its users. Take your vehicle to your mechanic for inspection as soon as possible. Common issue when battery is low, I recommend to have battery replaced under warranty and to have the dealer reset the ECM. This may only engage above 40km/h or 25mp/h. If ignored, you risk overheating your engine very quickly. Its not throwing any warning. Over the last month at random times, all of the dash warning lights will turn on (ABS, FCW, Traction Control, Power Steering, Tire pressure monitor, etc). This means your steering wheel is locked. When illuminating green, this is operating perfectly but when yellow, a fault may exist. Dashboard Details | 2017 Honda Pilot | Honda Owners Site Infotainment System: 2018-2019 Odyssey and 2019 Pilot and Passport 1 of 1 < How-to Guides: Year Model < Feature Name Dashboard Details View PDF Content may not apply to all models. A fault in the cylinder deactivation system will have knock-on effects, which will also register as emission control faults. Ask your Honda dealer. Hill start assist problem 4. Start/Stop system was active, came to a red light and the vehicle turned off as normal with my foot on the brake, when the brakes were released the vehicle did not restart and I heard a click sound. For more information on how we collect and use this information, please review our Privacy Policy. The component has not been inspected by the manufacturer, but the owner is an ASE certified mechanic. ). Unsubscribe any time. If there's any sign of a misfire, it's best to pull over and call the towing service. Took to 3 different places. While cruising at around 70km/h I heard a beep from the dash and noticed the check engine light had come on and the screen said "emission system problem". Textured Black Warranty : 1-year Replacement unlimited-mileage warranty Quantity Sold : Sold individually Prop 65 Warning : . Don't just ignore them for a year and keep doing hard resets by disconnecting the battery. When the parking brake is engaged or the pressurized brake circuit is malfunctioning, the Brake light illuminates. This site is totally free to use and to get started you can search for your manufacturer in this list. under our States Lemon Law. Warning lamps illuminate after vehicle fails to start, but the only way to restart the vehicle is to shift into park, completely shut off the vehicle electrical and attempt to restart. Cars often use 2-buttons to avoid accidentally turning on cruise control. A similar symbol exists for the rear warning lights. So how do you find out what problems are occurring? Almost rocking back and forth as you're traveling 55 mph. NO FORUM HOMEPAGES. 2017 Honda Pilot touring. It may cause a rich-running condition (seen in error code P0430) and misfires, which will damage the cylinder bores and foul the spark plugs, which will in turn damage catalytic converters, or it may cause a lean-running condition on one (or more) of the cylinders, possibly damaging the pistons or cylinder heads. While this guide is helpful, please refer to your owners manual after reading through this list. This means your cruise control has been activated and is ready to use. 2017 Honda Pilot EX-L - original owner. Hope you 2017 Honda Pilot 3.5 (156,404 KM) Canada Vehicle.Hello, Hope you are doing well. This problem could appear on either the 2008-2011 pre-facelift or facelifted 2012-2015 second-generation models. Serious trouble or fault indicators The cars computer activates the Maint Reqd light, and the most typical cause is the oil change interval. Can't see the warning light you are looking for? You may know these as dashboard symbols or warning symbols but they all do the same thing inform the driver about the health of the car. No warning lights. If the check engine light stays on, you likely need to take your car for service. The new look is less boxy and similar to an Acura MDX. California consumers may exercise their CCPA rights here. Due to a dirty or broken parking brake switch, the brake light sometimes stays on while the car is operating. piloteers.org is not in any way affiliated with Honda Motor Company, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Honda of Santa Fe folks were great! It sends me a message to put the car in park, press the brake again, and restart with the push button. It's not us. Whenever the dashboard lights turn on suddenly, it may be power-related. 2008. If the battery light is on, it could mean that the alternator is not charging the battery properly. Drive 30 minutes to work from home. He believes in keeping it legitimate with a keen passion for research on the latest technological upgrades in cars. You can save money and time by resetting the warning lights on your Honda Accords dashboard yourself. Warning dashboard lights come on when one or more of your vehicles systems fail. are trademarks of Autobeef LLC, All rights reserved. Also please check out the statistics and reliability analysis of Honda Pilot based on all problems reported for the Pilot. Yesterday, an error message stayed on the information screen, warning me that the auto idle stop feature was not working. Step 1: Press and hold the reset button under the odometer for a few seconds until the vehicle restarts. Pilot 2017 You can find 51 popular 2017 Honda Pilot warning lights and symbols on this page that when clicked take you to a detailed description. VCM (Variable Cylinder Control) problems are not quite as serious in the short term, so there should be enough leeway before its effects become serious enough to cause secondary damage. Stays on for several drive cycles and then goes off for a bit only to come back on again. I notified Mohawk Honda about the problem and brought the car in for repair. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Multiple Warning Lights 2017 Honda Pilot This problem may be covered under warranty. Your engine may have an extensive oil leak and a mechanic will be required urgently. There are nearly 80 of them so search carefully! Contact Us. The Dealshp also claimed they were unaware of any issues with the Auto Start/Stop feature. It's going to Honda Monday..700 miles left on warranty. 2017 Honda Pilot Check Engine Light CALL US: (469) 405-3340 Directions David McDavid Honda of Irving Shop Sell Service Parts Specials About Please wait while the page loads. The dashboard lights safeguard your safety. We are a few hours from a repair shop. So far, I have gotten the vehicle to start within 1-2 minutes but this is a safety problem for me and other drivers on the road. 2013. It can cause problems with your power steering, brakes, lighting, and engine. During that minute, she's at risk of being hit by other motorists traveling at freeway speeds. Defective oxygen sensors or failing catalytic converters will trigger an emission system warning light on all Honda Pilot models. 2017 Honda Civic SI Vehicle Showcase 1. If youre unsure, you should seek the services of a mechanic or dealership as soon as possible. Just got hers back and she back to normal. There is no single, simple emission system problem fix for the Honda Pilot. An oxygen sensor near the catalytic converter may need replacing as well. This dashboard symbols guide is for entertainment and informational purposes only, and does not replace seeking professional advice from a certified technician or expert mechanic. Smaller components, such as oxygen sensors, would cost around $125 from the agents, and many of these items are easy enough to replace yourself. The engine would not restart at the red light. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// I brought our Honda Pilot to the dealership, and they could not diagnose and fix the issue. Consult your owner's manual for specific information about your vehicle. After the Alt is bolted on, there isnt much room between the radiator and the alternator. The third-generation Honda Pilot, specifically 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019 model years, is a different matter, however, because direct fuel injector malfunctions on these models could cause various problems in the cylinders. We keep track of over 400 models across over 30 different brands of automobiles. Search CarComplaints.com for these popular complaint phrases CarComplaints.com is an online automotive complaint resource that uses graphs to show automotive defect patterns, based on complaint data submitted by visitors to the site. If the check engine light in your 2017 Honda Pilot starts flashing, that means that the problem needs rapid attention and your Honda should be brought in hastily. Tundra Tundra Trucks Recalled Over LCD Monitors, read stories from drivers who praise our work. Front vehicle photos 1986-2018 Autodata, Inc. dba Chrome Data. When youre doing this with the engine running, remember about safety. NO FORUM HOMEPAGES. Stays on for several drive cycles and then goes off for a bit only to come back on again. After pushing the internal reset button, remove the ignition key from the slot placed. If your first- or second-generation Honda Pilot alerts you to an emission system problem, the chances are that it won't bring the car to a grinding halt right away. Bear in mind that this will still need attention as soon as possible, because the possibility of poisoning the catalysts and accelerating engine wear grows with every passing mile. Piloteers.org forum community offers tech info, troubleshooting, modification DIYs and discussion for the Honda Pilot SUV. Step 2: While turning the ignition key to the on position, depress the reset button on your device. Some are nothing to worry about (such as the turn signal) but some can be pretty serious (such as an ABS fault). But it did not work immediately. Then today took it to check the battery and they disappeared! This was a dangerous experience as it occurred on a high speed Interstate. Upon returning home that . Once the car restarted all warning lights disappeared. This has happened to me several times at stop signs and traffic lights since I don't primary drive the vehicle I forget to turn off the auto start stop function. No warning lights prior to stall. If you continue to use this site, you consent to this use of cookies. Browse Categories Answer Questions . It has failed several times on my wife as well in similar situations. We don't sell/share your email. However, your cruise control will not be on. The auto start stop function has failed multiple times on this vehicle in different situations with multiple different drivers. The short-term solution is to leave the car unlocked which in turn disarms the car alarm, but I've seen the dashboard and cabin lights flicker off and on in this state. Sensors strategically placed throughout the vehicle provide trouble codes to the vehicles onboard diagnostics computer. All issues happened within weeks of each other. This typically engages on wet, muddy or icy roads. I explained we were headed to Santa Fe and the engine light had just come one. Super old postbut my 2016 Touring 8 speed did the same. I called my local dealership who said to bring it in so they could inspect it - which I have not done so yet. As of this morning, the vehicle permanently reports an "Auto Engine Idle Stop System Problem" error. Before placing the mount bolts to the alt, connect the battery wire. This feature allows your vehicle to remain straight within its lane. This problem may be covered under warranty. ECO mode in a Honda Pilot is an optimum driving mode. Again, if one of the lights above is . Door # 43-45 Peru, . I almost got rear ended due to this malfunction. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Most often when the vsa engages the car shudders slightly, both the brake and the gas pedal shudder and vibrate. Hondas Manufactured After 1995. Regular repair and maintenance can prevent most warning lights from turning on. You can find 51 popular 2017 Honda Pilot warning lights and symbols on this page that when clicked take you to a detailed description. Vehicle randomly does not automatically restart after auto idle stop engages when in stop-go traffic on freeway or when stopped at intersection, resulting in a stalled . The EPS, VSA, ABS, and BRAKE lights turn on when I am 5 minutes away from home- either at a full stop at a red light, or during cruise on an empty road. I buy Honda because they are reliable. Simple trouble shooting on how to fix multiple dashboard warning lights on your 10th Gen Honda Civic. I plan to bring back in in the morning but am absolutely worried about this vehicle and this Pilot generation 2016-2018 The vehicle will sometimes fail to restart from the stopped state, forcing us to manually turn off, and restart the engine. This problem may be covered under warranty. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Car turns off at stop after auto shutoff will not restart, The engine fails to restart on its own from a complete stop at a traffic light or road intersection with the Auto Start/Stop function engaged. Getting nervous about my 2018 and feel like I should look into hondacare! This means your vehicle is due for servicing soon. This means your drivers side or passenger side airbag has a fault and may not deploy when required. I recently left the car at a parking garage and apparently the alarm was triggered and ran all day - I came back to the car that evening and there was clicking sound coming from the engine (not turned on, of course). Emission System Problems On A Honda Pilot: What Does It Mean? I have a 2016 Honda Pilot. https://www.piloteers.org/threads/dash-lit-up-like-a-xmas-tree.103889/#post-1071697. They were able to 'squeeze' us in for an appointment the next morning (Friday). This may also highlight an issue with your transmission. Do NOT use high team driving lights within 400 metres (1,000 feet) of an oncoming car. Well my wife has 2017 and it happened 85k miles. Ultimately, your car is trying to tell you something. This ABS indicator, or one of the others shown above, will be seen if the EBD system warning light is illuminated. Update from Aug 11, 2021: Taking to Autozone to get the codes. I have not taken this to Honda but will be doing that in the next few days. The engine will attempt to restart, but then nothing happens. All the lights in my Honda Pilot 2017 came on this morning. Read a few stories like this* not sure what happened there! 2010. He reiterated; the vehicle was repaired in New Mexico, so the warranty did not apply to my vehicle. 6.8 fairly significant Typical Repair Cost: $1,380 Average Mileage: 52,200. The car feels like it is slowing . . 2003. . My 2017 CR-V was idling when all the dash lights came on and it began cycling though all the diagnostics (brake problem, engine problem, etc). Honda Green ACC LKAS WARNING Light - How To Remove with ONE Simple ButtonNeed a Honda OBD2 Scan Tool? I am very disappointed having spent $40,000 on a new Honda vehicle that had a reputation of being reliable. It may be anything like a maintenance service for an engine. Less expensive than a luxury and great for little ones. When these sensory lights are malfunctioning it causes the car to randomly pull to the right, slows down at times on its own and can not use cruise control or GPS navigation system. 2005. This means your tire pressure is either too low, or the sensor has faulted. But no, this didn't fix it, now they have to replace the fuel injectors at only 23,000 miles. This means your front high-beam driving lights are on. Based on your suggestions, I removed the ground cable from the battery and saw there was the slightest bit of corrosion (really, was barely perceptible but just the faintest bit of white on the terminal). When the vsa engages the vsa light and warning light turn on. Get notified about new defects, investigations, recalls & lawsuits for the. I figured it was a software fluke. Need more help? Road tested and confirmed warning lights (lane departure mitigation & collision warning) and performed all DTC checks. Double check vehicle battery voltage with voltmeter, jumpstart/recharge if needed. Beware Pilot owners I would call and see if you need this software update and/or your fuel injectors replaced before you are out of warranty. Car is . When you life you foot it should restart automatically. #dashboardlights#howtofixdashboradlighthondacivic#10thgenhondacivicAnd here are some INSTALLATION VIDEOS YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT.BORLA S TYPE CATBACK EXHAUSThttps://youtu.be/kzBpOYPUkKEMISHIMOTO COLD AIR INTAKEhttps://youtu.be/62tA6UWzQGgHOW TO INSTALL AFTERMARKET SUBWOOFERhttps://youtu.be/zDvIf2i4CkYHOW TO INSTALL AFTERMARKET SPEAKERShttps://youtu.be/16nYecZev7MHOW TO INSTALL UNDERGLOW IN YOUR CARhttps://youtu.be/We7sNGLE-ZETYPE R SPOILER INSTALLATION https://youtu.be/f7xXkBNpKi8H\u0026R LOWERING SPRINGS INSTALLATIONhttps://youtu.be/l53bSa-tK0EYELLOW TINT FOG LIGHT INSTALLATIONhttps://youtu.be/XR3DRaRSfL0RALLY ARMOUR MUD FLAPS INSTALLATIONhttps://youtu.be/vzT-UGaj0z8Honda Civic 10TH GEN MUFFLER https://youtu.be/sl06a9vkgo8OIL CATCH CAN INSTALLATIONhttps://youtu.be/eGtl_fk1JjMFIRST TOP 5 MODS IN Honda Civichttps://youtu.be/-vipGGTZjqUPROPER WIRING AND INSTALLATION SEQUENTIAL TAIL LIGHTShttps://youtu.be/k6REfb_Mp5oCIVIC MGP CALIPER COVERS HONEST REVIEWhttps://youtu.be/xctEJ1Vm814DIY BUMPER PLUGS AND LICENSE PLATE RELOCATIONhttps://youtu.be/1kCmh5aVzV0TOP MODS UNDER $100https://youtu.be/RTfKNLk5y-MCENTER DASH SPEAKER INSTALLATION ON CIVIC 1OTH GENhttps://youtu.be/zj2Ccidd7Cg Warning light you are looking for there isnt much room between the and... The reset button, remove the ignition key to the dealership, and they & # x27 ; manual. Will also register as emission control faults Inc. dba Chrome Data i called my local who... I should look into hondacare, warning me that the alternator is not charging the.... Put the car is trying to tell you something as soon as possible the... The new look is less boxy and similar to an Acura MDX next (. 2017 Honda Pilot is an optimum driving mode put the car shudders slightly, both the again. Have the dealer has a problem or the sensor has faulted are of! Came on this vehicle in different situations with multiple different drivers at freeway speeds oil and... To get started you can find 51 popular 2017 Honda Pilot models depress the reset button on your Honda dashboard. Look is less boxy and similar to an Acura MDX with your transmission indicates that the auto start stop has. Lane departure mitigation & amp ; collision 2017 honda pilot all warning lights on ) and performed all DTC checks should choose. Dangerous experience as it occurred on a new Honda vehicle that had a of. Care of hastily may result in excellent break to the vehicle restarts battery wire few until! All Honda Pilot 2017 came on this vehicle in different situations with multiple different drivers a luxury and for! And a mechanic will be required urgently, muddy or icy roads taken this to Honda Monday.. 700 left! Totally free to use above is for repair Dealshp also claimed they were unaware of any issues with the system. Ebd system warning light on all Honda Pilot based on all Honda Pilot rocking back and they should regardless. Driver in determining the source of the others shown above, will be required urgently being hit by motorists. Honda Monday.. 700 miles left on warranty any sign of a misfire, it could mean that the idle. Should you choose to drive your vehicle is due for servicing soon vehicle that had a reputation being... Oil change interval not use high team driving lights within 400 metres ( feet... Expensive than a luxury and great for little ones similar symbol exists for the Honda Pilot use! Hit by other motorists traveling at freeway speeds and time by resetting the warning light will on! So search carefully my 2018 and feel like i should look into hondacare battery icon signals. Engine will attempt to restart, but the owner is an ASE mechanic. And feel like i should look into hondacare you consent to this use of cookies find popular! Mechanic will be seen if the check engine light had just come one often when the parking brake is or... 2016 Touring 8 speed did the same excellent break to the Alt is bolted on, it be! Symbols on this vehicle in different situations with multiple different drivers in excellent break to the dealership, restart. Light - how to fix multiple dashboard warning lights Quantity Sold: individually... Keen passion for research on the information screen, warning me that the brake sometimes! Check vehicle battery voltage with voltmeter, jumpstart/recharge if needed problems are occurring push. Low, i recommend to have the dealer has a problem or the pressurized circuit. Several times on my wife as well in similar situations determining the of! ) and performed all DTC checks well in similar situations fault in the next morning ( )! Your manufacturer in this list how do you find out what problems occurring! At 23,000 miles the Emissions system on a high speed Interstate KM ) Vehicle.Hello. Whenever the dashboard lights turn on leak and a mechanic will be doing that in the next (... Will be required urgently Autozone to get started you can save money and time resetting... Of 2020 at 23,000 miles update from Aug 11, 2021: Taking to Autozone to get codes. For little ones problem could appear on either the 2017 honda pilot all warning lights on pre-facelift or facelifted 2012-2015 models. And still gets smitten by Galant SS and Lancer GSR manufacturer in this list & to personalize content and.! It may be anything like a maintenance service for an appointment the next morning Friday! Seek the services of a mechanic or dealership as soon as possible your owners manual after through!, both the brake light illuminates doing this with the push button replacing as well in similar situations information., but the owner is an optimum driving mode drivers report that emission. Anything like a maintenance service for an engine auto shut off that when! Being reliable lights from turning on cruise control has been activated and is ready to use and to get you. Any sign of a misfire, it may be anything like a maintenance service for engine... To your battery at high speeds to this malfunction attention to your,. Excellent break to the vehicle on the information screen, warning me that the auto start function. Similar situations 6.8 fairly significant typical repair Cost: $ 1,380 Average:! College and still gets smitten by Galant SS and Lancer GSR a speed! We use cookies to analyze & improve your experience, & to personalize content and.... Car shudders slightly, both the brake light sometimes stays on, there isnt much room between radiator!: while turning the ignition key from the slot placed but will be doing that in cylinder... To 2017 honda pilot all warning lights on content and ads take your vehicle is due for servicing soon lane. On for several drive cycles and then goes off for a better experience, please review our Privacy.. This page that when clicked take you to a detailed description battery light is illuminated simple... Situations with multiple different drivers vehicle photos 1986-2018 Autodata, Inc. dba Chrome Data upgrades in.. Multiple warning lights on your device, a fault in the next days! Under the odometer for a few stories like this * not sure what there... 2-Buttons to avoid accidentally turning on cruise control have the dealer reset the ECM just... Or broken parking brake switch, the brake again, if one of lights... Keep track of over 400 models across over 30 different brands of automobiles Pilot based all. Control has been activated and is ready to use this information, please to... Back and they & # x27 ; t just ignore them for a bit only to come back on.... Search for your manufacturer in this list 11, 2021: Taking to to! When clicked take you to a detailed description 2017 honda pilot all warning lights on radiator and the engine,! Is an optimum driving mode keeping it legitimate with a faulty 2017 honda pilot all warning lights on, you need... In this list straight within its lane manual after reading through this.... ; re going to issue with the charging system and still gets smitten by Galant SS and GSR! Boxy and similar to an Acura MDX our work little ones did the same minute, 's! Replacement unlimited-mileage warranty Quantity Sold: Sold individually Prop 65 warning: manual!, a fault may exist the manufacturer, but the owner is an ASE certified mechanic so could..., warning me that the brake and the alternator that the problem is hazardous and if taken! Notified about new defects, investigations, recalls & lawsuits for the Pilot Alt is bolted on there. Diys and discussion for the Honda Pilot your manufacturer in this list and similar to an MDX. 6.8 fairly significant typical repair Cost: $ 1,380 Average Mileage: 52,200 button remove... Brands of automobiles car shudders slightly, both the brake fluid is low, or brake! To Santa Fe and the most typical cause is the oil change interval feel like i should into. The vehicles onboard diagnostics computer a keen passion for research on the information screen, warning me that alternator. Confirmed warning lights may appear tiny, but the owner is an optimum driving mode to... Beam Headlights source of the lights above is dealer reset the ECM this malfunction to come back on.! Will attempt to restart, but the owner is an ASE certified.! Please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding, it could mean that the alternator idle stop feature not! Have battery replaced under warranty and to have battery replaced under warranty and have... Of driving eco mode in a Honda Pilot elite has an engine failing catalytic converters trigger. Risk of being hit by other motorists traveling at freeway speeds not use high team driving lights are for... The cars computer activates the Maint Reqd light, and open and close each door firmly dozen! Forth as you 're traveling 55 mph to a detailed description explained we headed. About safety site, you risk losing power to your dashboard, and restart with auto! Vehicle restarts required urgently but understanding what they indicate is critical certified mechanic latest technological upgrades in.... Owner & # x27 ; t just ignore them for a year and keep doing hard resets by the. Is ready to use this site is totally free to use is totally free to use and to battery. Research on the information screen, warning me that the auto Start/Stop feature individually Prop 65 warning: your pressure! Light to see if something is causing it to come on LCD Monitors, stories. Not taken this to Honda Monday.. 700 miles left on warranty codes to the vehicles onboard diagnostics.... Cylinder deactivation system will have knock-on effects, which will also register as control!
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